Subscribe Feed (RSS)LDS and Christians: Was Joseph Smith humble? Salvation without his consent?
December 9th, 2009 by admin | Filed under Religion & Spirituality.
Rich S asked:
His quotes:
History of the Church, 5:467
Don’t employ lawyers, or pay them money for their knowledge, for I have learned that they don’t know anything. I know more than they all.
History of the Church, 6:78
I combat the error of the ages; I meet the violence of mobs; I cope with illegal proceedings from executive authority; I cut the gordian knot of powers; & I solve mathematical problems of universities, with truth -diamond truth; & God is my “right hand man.”
History of the Church, 6:308
I am learned, & know more than all the world put together.
History of the Church, 6:319-320
God made Aaron to be the mouthpiece for the children of Israel, & He will make me to be a god to you in His stead, and the Elders to be mouth for me; and if you don’t like it, you must lump it.
WHAT ABOUT MATT 18:4 JAMES 4:6?
Joseph Fielding Smith, LDS’ 10th president, went on record as saying that there is “no salvation without Joseph Smith.” (Doctrine of Salvation 1:189)
WHAT ABOUT JOHN 10:1?
I DID NOT take anything out of context. The duck lady just spit it back out and it says the same thing!!! How can you not believe in the LORD JESUS CHRIST OF THE BIBLE only and choose to believe this CRAP???
His quotes:
History of the Church, 5:467
Don’t employ lawyers, or pay them money for their knowledge, for I have learned that they don’t know anything. I know more than they all.
History of the Church, 6:78
I combat the error of the ages; I meet the violence of mobs; I cope with illegal proceedings from executive authority; I cut the gordian knot of powers; & I solve mathematical problems of universities, with truth -diamond truth; & God is my “right hand man.”
History of the Church, 6:308
I am learned, & know more than all the world put together.
History of the Church, 6:319-320
God made Aaron to be the mouthpiece for the children of Israel, & He will make me to be a god to you in His stead, and the Elders to be mouth for me; and if you don’t like it, you must lump it.
WHAT ABOUT MATT 18:4 JAMES 4:6?
Joseph Fielding Smith, LDS’ 10th president, went on record as saying that there is “no salvation without Joseph Smith.” (Doctrine of Salvation 1:189)
WHAT ABOUT JOHN 10:1?
I DID NOT take anything out of context. The duck lady just spit it back out and it says the same thing!!! How can you not believe in the LORD JESUS CHRIST OF THE BIBLE only and choose to believe this CRAP???
www.mormonchallenge.com
Tags: Executive Authority, Joseph Smith, Truth God
Joseph Smith wasnt a Christian and I dont consider him a prophet.
You can’t make character judgments about a person’s life based on a few isolated quotes. The Doctrine and Covenants, one of the LDS books of scripture includes revelations from God to Joseph. In a few of those revelations, Joseph is chastized by God. The fact that Joseph would let the entire church and entire world see such revelations tells me that he was indeed a humble person.
And Mormons believe salvation is based on God’s say-so, not Joseph’s…that’s nonsense.
Joseph Smith was a latter day “religious” con-man. A good one I grant you, cos he knew every bit as much how to fleece a gullible punter as an OT prophet or an NT gospeller. An enduring motto amongst cynical “holy men” down the ages and across the globe is “There’s one born every minute!” and unfortunately there is!
Rich I wish someday that you would write whole quotes or just links so that people can see the context in which you pull your quotes. Joseph Smith was not learned, he had a 3rd grade education, but when it comes to spiritual matters he did have a little more direct contact than you and me. Joseph F. Smith was discussing the restoration of the Gospel. Without the gospel being restored, the priesthood was still not on the earth. In that sense he was right. Although Salvation comes only through Jesus Christ, his priesthood is necessary for salvatory ordinances. So in that sense…your quote is 100% true. Of course anyone would know that if you listed the whole paragraph instead of 9 words.
for example
I am not learned, but I have as good feelings as any man.
History of the Church 5:362; Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 159; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 296
Although I do wrong, I do not the wrongs that I am charged with doing; the wrong that I do is through the frailty of human nature, like other men. No man lives without fault.
History of the Church 5:140; Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 29; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 258
You put things out of context it’s sad.
Context is everything when quoting from BH Roberts accounts of Church History….and you provide none. That is intellectual dishonesty at its heights.
History of the Church, 5:467:
I have no doubt but I shall be discharged by the municipal court. were I before any good tribunal, I should be discharged, as the Missouri writs are illegal and good for nothing–they are “without form and void.”
But before I will bear this unhallowed persecution any longer–before I will be dragged away again among my enemies for trial, I will spill the last drop of blood in my veins, and will see all my enemies in hell! To bear it any longer would be a sin, and I will not bear it any longer. Shall we bear it any longer? [One universal "No!" ran through all the vast assembly, like a loud peal of thunder.]
I wish the lawyer who says we have no powers in Nauvoo may be choked to death with his own words. Don’t employ lawyers, or pay them money for their knowledge, for I have learned that they don’t know anything. I know more than they all.”
History of the Church, 6:78:
Shall I, who have witnessed the visions of eternity, and beheld the glorious mansions of bliss, and the regions and the misery of the damned,–shall I turn to be a Judas? Shall I, who have heard the voice of God, and communed with angels, and spake as moved by the Holy Ghost for the renewal of the everlasting covenant, and for the gathering of Israel in the last days,–shall I worm myself into a political hypocrite? Shall I, who hold the keys of the last kingdom, in which is the dispensation of the fullness of all things spoken by the mouths of all the holy Prophets since the world began, under the sealing power of the Melchizedek Priesthood,–shall I stoop from the sublime authority of Almighty God, to be handled as a monkey’s cat-paw, and pettify myself into a clown to act the farce of political demagoguery? No–verily no! The whole earth shall bear me witness that I, like the towering rock in the midst of the ocean, which has withstood the mighty surges of the warring waves for centuries, am impregnable, and am a faithful friend to virtue, and a fearless foe to vice,–no odds whether the former was sold as a pearl in Asia or hid as a gem in America, and the latter dazzles in palaces or glimmers among the tombs.
I combat the errors of ages; I meet the violence of mobs; I cope with illegal proceedings from executive authority; I cut the guardian knot of powers. and I solve mathematical problems of universities, with truth–diamond truth; and God is my “right hand man.”
History of the Church, 6:308
Now, I ask all who hear me, why the learned men who are preaching salvation, say that God created the heavens and the earth out of nothing? The reason is, that they are unlearned in the things of God, and have not the gift of the Holy Ghost; they account it blasphemy in any one to contradict their idea. If you tell them that God made the world out of something, they will call you a fool. But I am learned, and know more than all the world put together. The Holy Ghost does, anyhow, and he is within me, and comprehends more than all the world; and I will associate myself with him.
History of the Church, 6:319-320
I shall leave my brethren to enlarge on this subject: it is my duty to teach the doctrine. I would teach it more fully–the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. God is not willing to let me gratify you; but I must teach the Elders, and they should teach you. God made Aaron to be the mouth piece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be god to you in
His stead, and the Elders to be mouth for me;
Amazing how using the entire quote changes the meaning, isn’t it? Of course he was a humble man. MUCH more humble than one who, for instance, claims to have found the true gospel of Christ but spends all their time on the internet trying to ridicule somoene else’s religion….
If you don’t believe the way we do, that’s your God-given right, but why do you feel the need to try to bully everyone else into thinking the way you do?
Here are a few WHOLE QUOTES for some folkes….
You cant take these out of text. its right here in black and white..
Yes, That is a belief within the mormon church….Heres some info….
IMO….Joseph Smith was full of himself and wanted the glory focused on him…..
This from 1988!!
If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]” Apostle George Q. Cannon, as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142
“Whosoever… does not confess that God has sent Joseph Smith, and revealed the everlasting Gospel to and through him, is of Antichrist…,” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, p. 176
and…
[There is] “no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth…no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God” Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190
Brigham Young quoted this statement…
“No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith…every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are… [Joseph Smith] reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim—”Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!” But it is true.” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.289-91
I can pick and choose verses out of the Bible to say that murder is ok too. Please quit taking things out of context. Not to mention, what you have “quoted” is not docterine but one person’s view of what was going on.
Truth mingled with the fiction of men. Do you not know any other way? It is one thing to be able to copy and paste crap from another site, and another to have actually read the church’s history. Why don’t you try that? You might actually find out that you have inserted your foot into your mouth long ago and now you are trying to dig a pit for your neighbor similar to the pit that you can’t seem to get out of.